Curse

Savio · Sep 14, 2005, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang

Just hold on there, buddy!
You mean to say that you'd pick a female kung-fu monk over a jiggling elementalist? C'mon. I like Jackie Jet Chan Li as much as the next fella, but you can't turn down an elementalist lap dancer (if you're a guy)!

Yes I can. Female Mesmers are hotter. And they hex me so I take damage every time I'm with Elementalists.

Back OT: TadaceAce, you're comparing an E/Mo build to a nonexistant Mo build without any secondaries. You couldn't manage energy with an Mo, so you switched to E/Mo, used the overpowered Ether Renewal, and think that pwns all. Sorry, but that just shows a lack of effort on your part. Everything else I can say has already been said. GG.

HunterZ · Sep 14, 2005, 04:15 AM // 04:15

I know this thread is probably more about PvP or GvG than PvE, but I want to contribute an out-of-the-box experience that has added to my belief that Monks are overvalued in PvE groups. I recently played Thirsty River with an all-Ranger group (Ranger primaries with various secondary classes). We used pets as tanks and stayed close to each other so we could cast Healing Spring during combat. This made us pretty much invincible throughout the entire mission, and we stormed through it as a result!

Algren Cole · Sep 14, 2005, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterZ

I know this thread is probably more about PvP or GvG than PvE, but I want to contribute an out-of-the-box experience that has added to my belief that Monks are overvalued in PvE groups. I recently played Thirsty River with an all-Ranger group (Ranger primaries with various secondary classes). We used pets as tanks and stayed close to each other so we could cast Healing Spring during combat. This made us pretty much invincible throughout the entire mission, and we stormed through it as a result!

healing spring is the most piece of shit healing skill in the game. you made it through the mission because you worked as a team and focused your fire...every mission is possible without a monk. Monks just make it easier. But yes I do agree monks are overrated.....even though I play one from time to time

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 14, 2005, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Yes I can. Female Mesmers are hotter. And they hex me so I take damage every time I'm with Elementalists.

I'll give you that. I think female mesmers are much sexier. They have the best looking FoW armor around.

Ellipson · Sep 14, 2005, 04:46 AM // 04:46

It doesn't look good for your case when some of the folks who are known to write essays on this stuff are saying, "Just... no."

Aracos79 · Sep 14, 2005, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang

I'll give you that. I think female mesmers are much sexier. They have the best looking FoW armor around.

Is female mesmer FoW armor really that good? I'm about to delete my ascended Me/N because finding groups with it is impossible.

EternalTempest · Sep 14, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

The way the OP has presented the information almost puts everyone on the offensive and some the comments since then but he has some really good points and he has though about it. Here is a non-offensive summary

In PvP 4x4 an Healing Ele may be better then an standard monk for the reason that Ele have better energy management and 4x4 random not likely to have remove enchants that ele rely on. The point is to keep your energy through the roof with earth as added defense and allow you to spam constant healing. Also he points out how healing in 151 point shots over 2xx may be better do to the way some monks over heal with there spells and use engery in the process.

He goes as far as to actually provide a build with stats to give it try.

For Pve he points how a modification of the 4x4 healing ele and an Necro/Monk can make great secondary healers when no one can find a monk yet pug's might reject this since's it so foreign.

He does point out Monk is better for Tomb Kings and Guild vs Guild over an ele/monk.

I can see his logic and I think this approach is not used that much that it might work. I don't have enough of the stuff unlocked to mess with this build with a Pvp character nor do I want to convert my ele/mes at this time but once I do I might give this a try. I remeber the saying, what doesn't work dies on the battlefield and if it's flawed or I not good at this playing style then it won't be for me, but if it does work, sounds like fun.

I do think the "shock" approach was the wrong way of doing it.

Third Quarter · Sep 14, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26

The Divine Favour bonus sounds piddly when you look at it, but it's actually just enough that a Monk primary can sustainably heal with nothing more than natural regen. There are also a handful of very nice skills that have Divine Favour as their primary attribute.

That being said, an E/Mo can can use Ether Renewal and Infuse Health to restore as much as 3000 health in a 10 second timespan. Not too shabby, I think.

(Xapti over at the Guild Hall cooked this one up. It's pretty awesome in RA/TA)

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 14, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

Is female mesmer FoW armor really that good? I'm about to delete my ascended Me/N because finding groups with it is impossible.

Yeah.
(Apologies to Therm - I borrowed one of his screencaps from another thread...)

Freyas · Sep 14, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Well, first, you're definately not the first person to make an E/Mo healer- back in the alpha test, before the World Preview Event, they were all the rage(due mainly to Ether Prodigy back then before it was changed considerably). I can remember seeing E/Mo's healing in all of the BWE's as well as in the early stages of release as well. Don't make claims you can't back up.

E/Mo's can make good healers, but in general, they're less reliable than primary monks. Basically, in order to keep up, you sacrifice your elite skill for Renewal, and depend on that to help you heal. If the Renewal gets stripped, interrupted, whatever, you're far less useful than a monk primary. You also lose access to a lot of the more useful skills- Spellbreaker, Word of Healing, Shield of Regen, Boon, Signet of Devotion, etc. When facing enemies with lots of enchantment removal, interruptions, or other disruption, I'd far prefer to have a monk who can be effective by casting a quick 5-energy heal than hope that the E/Mo healer doesn't get their renewal disrupted and has to wait for 10 energy to cast their heal other, which barely outstrips the monks orison. Not to mention, the E/Mo has to bring along several skills just to enchant themselves up for renewal, cutting down their versatility significantly- a primary monk can fit in hex/condition removal along with some healing enchantments and direct healing, as well as a rez. An E/Mo will generally have 4 enchantments only for themselves on their bar, with a couple heavy-hitting, expensive heal spells, and generally little to nothing in the way of removal.

I actually find secondary monks work better using protection rather than healing in any case. Monks have an efficiency that can't be matched for actual healing, due to the divine favor bonus. However, the ability to cast more protection spells can be worthwhile to have protection via a secondary. Mesmers make great hex removers, and can use inspiration spells to fuel a lot of the costly protection enchantments like Aegis, Shield of Regen/Deflection, etc where the divine favor bonus isn't all that important. E/Mo's can supplement their protection with wards which can help out significantly as well.

To Third Quarter: I've played with an E/Mo spamming Infuse Health(under Zephyr for only 3 seconds without renewal after +20% duration), and it can be quite sick. The problem generally comes in when the other team spikes a target when you're waiting on Renewal to recharge or are recasting enchants as they wear off. This is probably the most effective E/Mo healing build I've seen, but it is extremely weak to enchantment removal- one rend, and your character is pretty much useless.

Kai Nui · Sep 14, 2005, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnybegood

i beleive the only reason for a monk primary is because of divine favor, with out it your ele build would keep the gang in tip top shape , another good healer might be the mesmer cuz of fast casting but i havent really had the chance to expiriment with this idea.

Me/Mo healer works awesome, fast casting the res spells is most useful if someone does happen to die, and you can cast out a lot of heals quickly to make up for the lost divine. I would know, I am one.

Schorny · Sep 14, 2005, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Me/Mo healer works awesome, fast casting the res spells is most useful if someone does happen to die, and you can cast out a lot of heals quickly to make up for the lost divine. I would know, I am one.

a friend of mine is running an awesome Me/Mo protector, but healer?

An orison costs 1 sec cast time - there is not much need to make it faster. My friend uses mesmer for the possibility of faster recharge, which is really good when using aegis, shielding hands,... all the stuff that has a long cooldown.

But with heal skills i don't see neither long casting skills nor long recharge skills. So what benefit does a Me/Mo give you? You need to consider that you heal far less a Mo/Me can do.

With protection it is not really a problem to have it at 12 instead of 16, most skills don't get a real benefit from it. But with healing... things are quite different.

So please tell me: why is it so important to cast in 0.6 seconds instead of 1?

maffa · Sep 14, 2005, 02:42 PM // 14:42

A very important thread raised from the start by an eejit who seems to have his own head jammed fast up his own chocolate wizzwang. But none the less, a few points have been posted since which raised some very valid points that I would like to highlight.

1. You choose your main char by the stlye of dance
2. Every bloke goes for the hottest looking / least dressed char they can find

OK so only 2 valid points, but is it just my fettish or is anyone else waiting for a female dwarf char to make so we can perv at the beard???

Mormegil · Sep 14, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by maffa

A very important thread raised from the start by an eejit who seems to have his own head jammed fast up his own chocolate wizzwang. But none the less, a few points have been posted since which raised some very valid points that I would like to highlight.

1. You choose your main char by the stlye of dance
2. Every bloke goes for the hottest looking / least dressed char they can find

OK so only 2 valid points, but is it just my fettish or is anyone else waiting for a female dwarf char to make so we can perv at the beard???

Things I didn't like about your post: the "fettish" typo (it's "fetish").

Things I liked about your post: the term "eejit" to define the op, the curious "chocolate wizzwang" expression and the bearded lady thing. A dwarf female would be so hot.

TadaceAce · Sep 21, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by zehly

Shatter Myth [Elite Spell]: For 0..1 seconds, target of Shatter Myth has an open mind. When Shatter Myth ends, the caster takes 1022..913 posts of "Flame" damage.

Good points made though. The problem is getting people in the arenas to listen

haha he said it

This is how I'll leave it, I'll give you the best 4 v 4 monk build and ele build for healing (won't use necro for 4v4 cause no death)

Then I'll give you the best ele heal - monk heal - and necro heal builds for pve
If your even worth arguing in this thread you'll have the skills to run these builds at least as far as pvp characters, you'll take others word on the heal builds. Honestly people, forget what people tell you about monks being the best healers and try it yourself.

Oh and don't flame the builds, some builds are better than others in different situations but overall these are the best builds I've found and I've played just about anything the imagination can create.

I'll rate the build on a scale of 1-10 on effectiveness

FOR FOUR VS. FOUR ARENAS!
Monk - Word of Healing, Healing Touch, Healing Breeze, Orison of Healing, Armor of Earth, Life Bond, Balthazar's Spirit. Rating: 7
Spec - 11+4 heal, 6+1 prot, 8+1 divine, 10 earth

Ele - Ether Renewal, Heal Other, Healing Breeze, Orison of Healing, Reversal of Fortune, Aura of Restoration, Armor of Earth, Kinetic Armor. Rating: 10
Spec - 12 heal, 6+4 storage, 10+1 earth, 6 prot

FOR PVE!!
Monk - Orison of Healing, Heal Other, Healing Breeze, Healing Touch, Inspired Hex, Drain Enchantment, Energy Tap, Energy Drain. Rating: 8
Spec - 12+4 heal, 8+1 divine, 10 inspiration

Ele - Ether Renewal, Heal Other, Healing Breeze, Orison of Healing, Divine Boon, Aura of Restoration, Balthazar's Spirit, Rebirth/Rez Sig. Rating: 6
Spec - 12 heal, 12+4 storage

Necro - Word Of Healing, Heal Other, Healing Breeze, Healing Touch, Orison of Healing, Heal Party, Vigorous Spirit, Rebirth/Rez Sig. Rating: 9
Spec - 12 heal, 12+4 reaping

Test um out, the PvE ele healer can also be swapped as a basic healer and use ether prodigy.

Sick of the flames, if you don't have something constructive to say simply say bump.

TadaceAce · Sep 21, 2005, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Primary Monk will always be the king of team healing. Because that little extra healing will do wonders when you can only get 1 heal spell off before having all of your energy taken from you.

If you ever find a mesmer who can drain 100 energy (16 storage and a 10+5 staff) in 1 round of skills, sign him up cause hes hacking.

Chance Folly · Sep 21, 2005, 10:14 PM // 22:14

*sighs in annoyance*
Uhm... I'm not going to type out a long, elaborate post, but... For everyone screaming "omg monks don't have enuff energy!!!1!one!", you really need to take a look outside of your narrow-minded idea of a healer. For example, my Healer is a Mo/N. I use Divine Boon to trigger staggering heals, and I use Offering of Blood to regenerate energy. Between Blood Rituals cast by Necromancers, and Offering of Blood, I almost never run out of energy, while doing 150-300 health heals. Omgomgomgwtflolbbq. *sighs again, and strolls out of the topic*

Teklord · Sep 21, 2005, 10:16 PM // 22:16

I have no doubt in my mind that Elementalists and certain builds of other classes can be potential primary healers. However the Monk has the most diversity in skill choice when it comes to builds with healing due to their Primary Attribute of Divine Favor, and a nice little skill called Divine Boon (which if I remember correctly operates off of Divine Favor).

Teams are already concerned with whether or not they have a Healing or Smiting monk, but in rare cases you can pull both skillsets together nicely. I wouldn't want to start having to ask all Elementalists if they are now specced for Healing vs. Damage Dealing... but that might just be me.

KamikazeChicken · Sep 21, 2005, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

If you ever find a mesmer who can drain 100 energy (16 storage and a 10+5 staff) in 1 round of skills, sign him up cause hes hacking.

1. I'd like to know a monk with 100 energy; they'd be my best friend.
2. Your "best healing builds" list is utter crap. You can't properly compare 2 or more things unless variables are kept even somewhat constant. Not to mention, energy management > your silly desire for armor of earth.

3. No monk under the sun runs a build that doesn't have energy management. You seem to keep giving your elementalist the nice boost of ether renewal, but you don't want to give the monk OoB or ED? (ED being the prefered choice since hex/enchant/other EM skills run on that line.)
4. I'd love having more people run E/Mo healers. Now, not only do I outheal, but I have an unlimited energy engine to leech from.

I'll write your ignorance (I'll assume it's genuine ignorance about monks) off as you're the person with the bullshit formula. >.>

Phades · Sep 21, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

If you ever find a mesmer who can drain 100 energy (16 storage and a 10+5 staff) in 1 round of skills, sign him up cause hes hacking.

16 inspiriation
14 domination

Ether feast->Archane Echo->Energy drain->Energy drain->Energy tap->(mantra of signets) Signet of weariness->Signet of weariness->Energy burn->Ether feast.

106 energy drained. 20s elapsed with no fast casting. I do suspect that a debilitating shot ranger does it better in the same timeframe though.